TBE 3
Plastics, Missionary Work, and Exorcism: An Exploration Of Spiritual Warfare with Bill West

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TBE 3: Business Owner & Missionary Man Discovers Deliverance From Demons
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: Welcome to The Blind Exorcist. Exposing the darkness, revealing the light. I’m Justin D, your host. This is Episode 3. Listen. Listen, listen. I’m very, very excited. Got someone in studio with me today. How cool is that? You’re going to really, really enjoy him. He’s got a great sense of humor. Bill West. He’s the president and founder of West Extrusion. This is a plastics processing company. He’s owned and operated the company for 11 years. In 1999, he graduated from Highline College with a Bachelor of Arts in Japanese. He’s been married for 21 years to his wife, Yukari, and they together have two children.
He’s been a Christian missionary for the past 30 years, and he’s went on short mission trips to Mexico, Japan, China, and the Philippines. Bill, thanks for taking the time to come onto the podcast today, and hang out with us and talk about demons. [laughs] Welcome to The Blind Exorcist.
[applause]
It’s okay to speak.
Bill West: Are you sure?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. [laughs]
Bill West: Am I allowed to breathe?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: [pants]
Justin Daubenmire: Not too close, though, to that mic, because I’ll have to edit it out.
Bill West: Thought maybe you’d have to disinfect it.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. Well, guys, definitely. Just throw out the mic cover and buy a new one.
Bill West: Just get rid of it.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: That’s right. Buy a case of them. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Guys, this is Bill, a personal friend of mine, so excited he is here. Wow, does he have a story?
Bill West: Hello, everybody.
Justin Daubenmire: There’s my “um” I’m going to edit out.
Bill West: I’m not allowed to say, “um”?
Justin Daubenmire: No.
Bill West: We should have a jar on the middle of the table that you have to put a dollar in every time you say, “um”, and whoever says it less, gets to have all the money.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. You will walk out of here–
Bill West: It’s not gambling. It’s just paying.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, but you would walk out here very rich.
Bill West: Because I’m Mr. Disciplinarian.
[laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: Anyhow, I was trying to say that this is Bill. This is Bill, with the pretty pink shirt. If you’ve not listened to Episode 1, when this one’s finished, go over there and listen to Episode 1. This is Bill.
Bill West: My pretty pink shirt will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.
[laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: That’s right. You own a plastics company. Let’s talk about that a little bit. What is this? Are you recycling milk containers, yogurt containers? What is this?
Bill West: Well, sometimes, we use recycled materials. Just recently, I bought half a truckload of ground-up vinyl siding, and we turned it into something that we sold to one of the biggest boat manufacturers in the country.
Justin Daubenmire: Nice.
Bill West: Most of the time, it’s not that. Here’s how I like to explain it. If you remember those little Plato machines where it had a crank on top, and you had a little, maybe one inch or inch and a half square, little shape, and you put it in the front of it, and then you push the Plato down and, squeeze it out in the shape of a star or the moon or whatever.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: That is extrusion
Justin Daubenmire: All occultic, the star and the moon Plato.
Bill West: Well it was the star of David?
[laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: Anyhow, sorry, dude. Sorry, man.
Bill West: It’s okay.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re pushing out Plato, it’s coming out, this little template, that you put on the front.
Bill West: That’s exactly right. That’s what we do with plastic. Only, we don’t push it through with a crank so much, but we do heat it up 350 degrees or something, whatever the melting point of plastic is, and we push it out the machine, we make a metal one, not a little plastic dye, that’s called a dye or a mold, but usually, it’s called a dye. You stick it on the front of the machine, and it comes out in a constant stream. In the case of Plato, you have to keep reloading it. We don’t do that. We just keep a big hopper on top, which is a big container.
Justin Daubenmire: How does that thing cool when it comes out?
Bill West: It comes out and it goes into a water bath tank that’s probably– For us, they’re typically maybe 12 feet long. I do have a 20-footer. It goes into this water bath, and it cools there. It shocks into place. When it comes out, it’s melted plastic. It doesn’t just come out in that perfect shape like Plato did. It comes out, and it’s falling all over the place, because it’s liquid. It’s not as liquid as water, but it’s liquid, almost to the liquidity of slime, which everybody knows slime, it’s not even that liquid, but you pull it into the water, you actually have to grab it with your bare hands.
It’s the only way to effectively do this, and you pull it down, and then there’s a little conveyor that it goes on, and it keeps it at a constant speed, because if you could picture it like a rubber band, the more you stretch it, the smaller it gets.
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: It maintains the same shape, it’s just small. The same principle with plastic. If you keep this machine pushing at the same speed, and the conveyor pooling at the same speed, then you’ll maintain a size. That’s what we do.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s cool.
Bill West: Then it gets cut up into strips or put on rolls.
Justin Daubenmire: What are you making then? I get the manufacturing of this plastic widget. What is this widget like? What are you selling, and to who, and to what?
Bill West: A lot of times, we–
Justin Daubenmire: You mentioned a boat.
Bill West: That is just maybe a little bit too complicated of a thing, but that would go on the underside of a boat, like a pontoon boat, in the corners where the plywood floor meets the frame.
Justin Daubenmire: Okay. This is a plastic part that you’ve made for these types of boats?
Bill West: You stick it in the corner, and it keeps water from splashing up through the floor, and getting your feet all wet. It’s very functional. You never see the thing. Probably, most people that own a pontoon boat don’t even know they’re there. All they know is that their feet are not getting wet.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. You’re profiting off of wet feet is what you’re telling me. [laughs]
Bill West: No. Profiting off of supplying dry feet.
[laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
Bill West: That’s right.
[laughter]
A place that people might see it often, something we make, is sometimes when you see a little plastic edge on the table, or if you see the big plastic bumper along a wall, or let’s say, especially along the cash register, it looks like a big black stripe, or a big red stripe, whatever the branding of the company is. That is just to keep the buggy from scratching up the wall or whatever.
Justin Daubenmire: Interesting.
Bill West: That’s made there, so you would see plastic there. You’d see it on the edge of a table.
Justin Daubenmire: I got you. When I could see, I remember seeing the plastic around the folding table.
Bill West: You could feel it-
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: -on the edge of the table. Most of what we sell goes into the RV industry. If you see anything made by Thor Motor Coach, our stuff is in there. What we do for them is we decorate it. They give me a paneling, and we put–
Justin Daubenmire: Now, when you say paneling, is this a wooden paneling that they’re putting in this RV?
Bill West: Yes, sir. Paneling that you would even– a long time ago, that people used to do their basements with it.
Justin Daubenmire: Got it.
Bill West: In between the seams of all those things, we give them a seamless treatment, where we have a plastic molding that maybe, a shape like an H, and you slide these pieces of the paneling in together. So, now, you’re covering the seam, you only see one side of it.
Justin Daubenmire: Got it.
Bill West: We will match what the wood grain on that paneling is, exactly on the plastic, so that’s all you see. Very glamorous.
Justin Daubenmire: I’m assuming you manufacture– How do you transport this stuff?
Bill West: Very glamorous. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Wait. An RV, right? For a nice one is what? $500,000, $600,000.
Bill West: It just depends on really, how big of the one you want to get. You can get one that is about the size of, let’s say a shuttle bus. Those probably retail maybe around $100,000. They keep making them and making them and making them, and you would think, “Well, who’s got $100,000, $120,000 on an entry-level product?” They lend money out on a length of time like a mortgage, so you could be paying on your RV for 20 years. Maybe you only have $100 payment or $75. That’s how they–
Justin Daubenmire: I remember me and my wife were shopping for one. Dude, these were like flat-screen TVs coming down around the ceiling.
Bill West: That’s right. Oh, those are $500,000, yes. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: That’s what I’m talking about. We were in those. To your point, that it not necessarily luxury, but it is, based on how much you want to pay.
Bill West: Yes. You can get anything to in life, probably to be luxury. There’s a company out there, I guess. I don’t sell anything to them. I get nothing out of plugging Newmar RV. If you ever see a Newmar, oh, my goodness. You’re talking– Who’s going to buy one of these things? A Rockstar, they’re traveling the country. We’re talking big diesel buses with hardwood in it. Even some of the ones that I’m saying that you can get for say, $100,000, $80,000 to $120,000, they’ve got flat screen TVs in them. They’ve got remote window blinds that you can close with a remote control. They have-
Justin Daubenmire: That’s cool, man.
Bill West: -everything that you could ever possibly want in this thing. Some of them have them on the outside, where it looks like a luggage door, and you unlock it, and it has a hinge in the middle, you just flip it around. Now, all of a sudden, you’re outside with the campfire watching TV.
Justin Daubenmire: Oh, so, it’s a flat screen TV that just swivels out.
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s slick, dude.
[music]
Change the topic.
Bill West: We can try. [chuckles] I dare you. [chuckles]
Justin Daubenmire: You have a degree in Japanese.
Bill West: Yes. That’s right.
Justin Daubenmire: Why? Explain to me and the folks, what drew you to get a degree in Japanese? Because obviously, you’re a business owner.
Bill West: Right.
Justin Daubenmire: You own and operate this business. I would have thought you would’ve went for a business degree, and you didn’t.
Bill West: Right.
Justin Daubenmire: What’s up with that?
Bill West: Well, I never intended to be in business in my entire life. [laughs] Ironically. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Well, that’s apparent. I’m kidding.
Bill West: No, really. I never intended to be in business. Wow. That’s a long story. Justin Daubenmire, are you prepared to go there yet?
Justin Daubenmire: Just out of strict curiosity. I’m sure people are wondering this as well.
Bill West: Yes. Why?
Justin Daubenmire: Why?
Bill West: I’ve always been at least, attracted to Asian cultures. Even some of my favorite classes– One of my favorite classes in college was this history of Asian civilizations. I really like their architecture. I like every– There’s so many things, painting styles.
Justin Daubenmire: You were fascinated with the culture.
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: When did this fascination start?
Bill West: Well, I never really– I wasn’t that kid that was walking around, and his whole life was all about, how can I get more of this?
[music]
I grew up in a time, I think, where nobody was just being introspective, and nobody was really– at least, in my life, nobody was looking at, “What kind of things is he interested in.”
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
[music]
Bill West: That’s just how growing up in the ’70s was,
Justin Daubenmire: You got your marijuana. [laughs]
Bill West: [chuckles] Yes, that’s right.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: Point taken. You’re not very introspective. No one was, really, during that time. They may have thought they were, because of the trips and everything going on, drugs and stuff. You’re into this Japanese culture.
Bill West: I would say, just as a matter of taste. You had mentioned in your intro, that I had done various missionary projects.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, exactly.
Bill West: After I of my own free choice, became a Christian, and was baptized, I was asking God and praying, what should I do with my life? Because we didn’t touch on any of this yet. Maybe we will later, but I completely wrecked it, and was at the point in my life where I was like, “Okay–”
Justin Daubenmire: How old were you at this point?
Bill West: 25. I was crying out to God saying, “Okay. It’s apparent between you and I, that I do not have–”
Justin Daubenmire: Life skills. [laughs]
Bill West: “I don’t have what it takes to make good decisions for my own life, and pick a direction,” because the direction I was picking was-
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: -let’s be on the wrong side of Miami Vice. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Another way of saying, “Boy, let’s–” Yes, exactly. You’re making mistakes. You’re a young man, and at 25, all of a sudden, you’re like, “Man, something’s got to change here.”
Bill West: Right. I’m asking God, “What do you want me to do with my life then? Because I have no idea.” Up until that point, I thought I had picked a direction. By 25, I thought that I should be playing to crowds of 15,000, 20,000-
Justin Daubenmire: You were a musician?
Bill West: -in music. Yes, that’s right. As a bass player in ’80s, glam metal, big hair. Any ladies out there listening, I guarantee you, my hair was bigger than yours in 1987. [laughs] As silly as it is. That was just a look for an occupation.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: That’s what I wanted. That whole lifestyle just led me into a series of horrible– It’s just a horrible lifestyle that really, I picked. That’s another long story, but let me finish this one. I started to– It’s funny. Let’s see. On November 3rd, just passed. What is it? The sixth today? What’s the date today?
Justin Daubenmire: The seventh, the eighth. I don’t know.
Bill West: I don’t know either. November 3rd, which was just a couple days ago, was my born again birthday. I am a 30-year-old man. I am not 55. I don’t care what anybody says. I’m 30. I’m 30, baby.
Justin Daubenmire: Very cool.
Bill West: I remember that 30 years ago, Sunday morning, about 11:20, at Victory Assembly, I could take you to the place where my feet were standing when I said yes to God. In my heart, I said this. I said, “I know I’m going to give my life to you–” Or, this is what I said. “I know what I’m supposed to do. I’m going to live my life right from here out, but I will not become a priest,” because that was my perception. Being raised Roman Catholic, I thought, if you’re going to give your life to God, automatically, you’re a priest or a nun.
Justin Daubenmire: [laughs]
Bill West: That’s just what I thought was the deal. [laughs] I remember letting the Lord know that that’s, I guess, that’s my condition? The other part is, under no circumstances– These are the exact thoughts, “Under no circumstances, will I ever leave this country as a missionary.” Don’t ever tell God what you’re not going to do.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: He just has a way. It’s not a fist-slamming, beaten his shoe on the table, I’m going to punish you until I bend your will to my way.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. Because obviously, that’s not love. That’s domination and manipulation.
Bill West: Isn’t that the God that most, at least, Americans, or in Western civilizations, grow up. That’s their perspective. [crosstalk]
Justin Daubenmire: A lot of times, yes. Very authoritative and firm. Sure. You’re crawling on your knees,
Bill West: Unbuilding, unwielding. I think that the enemy that we do have loves to capitalize on that idea, and make your life difficult and point at him and say, “Look, he’s doing this. It’s because He’s mad at you, because you wouldn’t, because you said, because you did.”
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. Accuser of the brethern.
Bill West: What really happened is that I delighted myself in God, in my new relationship with Him, in reading His word, in reading about Him, and researching Him in every way that I can. He gave me the desires of my heart, which meant He started to reveal, He started to create in my own heart. Suddenly, I wanted to do this. Suddenly, I felt drawn to whatever. The weird thing was–
Justin Daubenmire: No, wait a minute. Let me pause you here. Drawn toward? At this point, is that this is you’re being drawn toward Japanese culture?
Bill West: No. I’m being drawn toward– a person will be drawn toward God’s will for their life, and they’ll want to do it. Not necessarily voices out of the sky saying, “Son, go to the mission field,” but just–
Justin Daubenmire: You’re being drawn, you think, to missions, and you just didn’t know it at this point.
Bill West: Actually. Well, remember, I had told God what I’m not doing. I’m like, “Under no circumstances. No, I’m not doing that.” About a year later, at that church, they were having this– The Assemblies of God has missions week. Probably, a lot of denominations have missions week. Or month. Actually, not week, but month. They’d have a missionary come in on every Sunday, and talk about where they were from, what they do, blah, blah, blah. They’ll show you pictures of people that they’re helping and stuff like that. My idea of what– Remember, I already had told you, I had a bad- Oh, I said, “um”. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. I think we’re tied. I think we’re tied.
Bill West: What my perception of what it meant to be a Christian was wrong. What God would be like was wrong. My impression of a missionary was Africa, dark cut, no electricity.
Justin Daubenmire: Which sometimes is for some people.
Bill West: The kicker, spiders.
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: I don’t care about the snakes, but spiders?
Justin Daubenmire: You wouldn’t do good on Survivor, because they eat them. Tarantulas?
Bill West: No.
Justin Daubenmire: No? I could do it, because I can’t see it.
Bill West: You would eat a spider. Nobody eats spiders, bro.
Justin Daubenmire: Oh, yes. They do. On survivor all the time. I’m binge watching it with [crosstalk].
Bill West: Shut it. You can’t talk about that.
Justin Daubenmire: [laughs]
Bill West: I do know that The Lord had to bring me to a point where I said, all right, even if it is that, I’ll do it for you.
Justin Daubenmire: I relate, because of exorcism.
Bill West: He never really said, and I didn’t feel any leading at all toward a certain direction or place or people, until I said– I remember the day, there’s a local pastor, she was a local missionary from the area, but felt called back here as a missionary. She was speaking, but she was showing slideshows. She was the last person out of that month. Little by little, each preacher would come and show me the people that they were helping. The Lord was just really cracking that shell on my heart where I was still hard toward, “I’m not doing this. It’s my way.” I could still see the face of this little Chinese boy sitting on a stoop. I could still see his face, 29 years later.
I said, “Okay, I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll go wherever you want me to go. I don’t care if it’s spiders in a hut, I’ll smash them. I don’t care.” Over the course of a few months, he just started to reveal something to me, and it was Asia and Japan. Didn’t make me try to go somewhere where I was going to be so thoroughly uncomfortable and suffering.
Justin Daubenmire: Just suffering.
Bill West: Yes, right. Suffering, that nobody would in their right mind would ever want to go there. I think people that go there want to go there.
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly. Anyone that I’ve met– I know a missionary local here that goes to Africa all the time. He absolutely loves it. He is deep into Africa. He’s into the huts and everything else. That’s his thing and he loves it.
Bill West: If you remember, I said that I’ve always been attracted to Asian things. My wife’s going to be like, “Yes. Including women, probably.”
Justin Daubenmire: That’s right. Your wife is Japanese.
Bill West: Right.
Justin Daubenmire: By the way, her name’s very pretty. Yukari. I like that. Very pretty.
Bill West: Actually, it is very pretty. That’s it, skating around a whole lot of things, but that’s how–
Justin Daubenmire: This is how you wound up out in Seattle eventually-
Bill West: Eventually.
Justin Daubenmire: -going for your degree in Japanese.
Bill West: Yes. That’s right. Cool. There’s so much stuff in between there, dude.
Justin Daubenmire: Oh, I can only imagine.
Bill West: I can’t even.
Justin Daubenmire: You obviously learned some level of Japanese, the language, to speak it, to be over there.
Bill West: Right. I did some self-taught. I didn’t want to go there not even knowing how to say, hello, how are you? I went to the bookstore, bought some cassette tapes at the time. CDs were not out yet, I don’t think. They might have been.
Justin Daubenmire: This is in the early 90s?
Bill West: This is 1992-ish. I just started learning Japanese language. Then when I went there, I took Japanese lessons Monday through Thursday, 8:00 in the morning till noon, every week for a year. As I was, wow. I got to be quite fluent. I’m not going to say– I’m certainly– I can’t talk about the intricacies of plastic extrusion with anybody in that industry there, but if you and I went there right now, just jumped on a plane, jumped off in Tokyo, I could take us wherever we need to go.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s good.
[laughter]
That’s good to know. I said, I didn’t want Sushi.
Bill West: I said, I want Ramen.
Justin Daubenmire: Ramen. That’s right, dude.
[laughter] [music]
You met your wife during university?
Bill West: Yes. That’s right. I went to the university though, after I came back from Japan. I had been back here for–
Justin Daubenmire: You were over there on a mission trip for year?
Bill West: Yes. From 1994 to 1995.
Justin Daubenmire: Okay.
Bill West: Yes. I came back here.
Justin Daubenmire: You go out west.
Bill West: Right. I feel like–
Justin Daubenmire: I remember you told me, man. You were praying, and the Lord said, go out, go west.
Bill West: There’s so many things that it’s just–
Justin Daubenmire: Go west, go west. Your last name’s West. I remember you telling me this.
Bill West: Right. I went through this thing that they called at this church I was attending at the time, they called it a Sheep Dip. Basically, it’s like, everybody in the church gets in two single file lines, and you walk through them, and they’re all laying their hands on you, praying for you. One guy that I know, I knew him, and he starts cracking up, and he says to me, “The Lord says, go west, young man,” and he knows how ridiculous that sounds at face value. He’s actually even embarrassed, I’m sure. I know he was.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: I was like, “Okay. All right, thanks.” [laughs] I kept on going, but the weird thing is, before I even left Japan, I felt that I was asking the Lord, what’s the next step, and he was telling me to go to Seattle. I’d never been to Seattle. I don’t know anybody in Seattle.
Justin Daubenmire: In extremely high Japanese amount of people.
Bill West: Population.
Justin Daubenmire: Population, yes. That’s what I was trying to say.
Bill West: Between that and San Francisco, those are the two hubs of flights coming in from Asia. I go there. The whole go west young man, I’m not going to leave that, what seems to be crazy, hanging out there. I had a appointment with a mentor of mine at the church. I don’t know, maybe a week later, I imagine. I went into the office, and there was a big, long hallway, and the son was behind me, so you could only see my silhouette, but a good friend of mine who actually is the pastor that married me and Yukari. The guy that officiated, you were there, my best man. If you remember, he saw me and tried to make out who is that? He goes, “Who is that? Bill West?” Go west, young man.
I thought, why did he say that? I feel like The Lord is telling me to go to Seattle. This guy named Dawn says, go west, young man.
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: I think he’s–
Justin Daubenmire: No clue. This is two men that said, go west.
Bill West: Exactly.
Justin Daubenmire: They don’t even know that they’ve said it to you.
Bill West: They don’t–
Justin Daubenmire: Completely disconnected.
Bill West: Yes, that’s right.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re like, okay, God’s confirming this. I think I need to go west.
Bill West: I was driving up the street. I was a security guard at the time, and I had to stop at a stoplight. You know where Denny’s is?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: Used to be, anyway. I was praying exactly at this time. I was praying, “God, I need another confirmation. If you want me to go to Seattle, I can’t have just these goofy sound and things, flaky sounding things.”
Justin Daubenmire: Right. You’re still seeking for something concrete.
Bill West: Yes. Really concrete.
Justin Daubenmire: I think that’s great. It’s good advice for anyone listening. If someone comes up to you and tells you something, you really need to be very slow, and just not jump with something.
Bill West: Of course.
Justin Daubenmire: I’m to the other extreme. I rarely listen to what anyone tells me, because I think a lot of people are wing nuts.
Bill West: Some people, as you know, will come up and say, “The Holy Spirit told me that you’re supposed to sing acapella on Facebook by yourself.”
Justin Daubenmire: Just weirdness like that, man. It’s just craziness. A lot of times, these people are demonized. I’m not going to dive into this, but they have demons. They’ve never went through an exorcism, and a lot of times, it’s not godly things that are speaking through these people to you, even though they’re Christians. I digress.
Bill West: Telling you something that at face value– There’s nothing wrong with praising God. There’s nothing wrong with getting on Facebook and singing a song. There’s something wrong with somebody else coming up to you and telling you, “The Holy Spirit told me to tell you to do this.”
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: I’m like, “When’s he going to tell me?” [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Right. Anyhow, you’re at this light, you’re praying about Seattle.
Bill West: That’s right. As I come up and stop at the light, I look to the left at Denny’s, because that’s where I had to stop. I’m not kidding. Their promotion, for some reason, I don’t know what they were, had some food specials or whatever, going on, Western omelets, or who knows, but I’m telling you, there was a banner that went all the way across the entire restaurant front of Denny’s.
Justin Daubenmire: [laughs] What’d it say?
Bill West: Go west, young man.
[laughter]
God’s talking to me.
[laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: At this point, you’re like, “I’m in.”
Bill West: All right. Okay. That’s too many. The scripture says, out the mouth of two or three witnesses. I don’t think that that even– I think that’s out of context, but still, it says that, and I don’t know, maybe it isn’t, but I took it. I said, “Okay, I won’t ask.” I remember saying, “Okay, Lord, now, I’m embarrassed, in front of you, that I had to ask you this many times, that you had to do that. You had to set up an advertising campaign at Denny’s headquarters just to get me to move.” [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, right. Well, I think it’s normal, and I think it’s a good thing. I don’t think it’s a bad thing because it just depends on–
Bill West: Depends on where you’re at.
Justin Daubenmire: It depends on where you’re at. Also, just to throw this out there, I keep nipping at this, but when someone’s demonized, and they have a Jezebel spirit, which is very, very good at masking as though it’s the Holy Spirit. Jezebel is masterful. It’s a religious spirit. That’s part of its characteristics, is that it deals with religion. It’s very religious, very pious. Anyhow, I just wanted to mention that, that be careful. When somebody tells you something that’s from God, you want to really pray about that. The person that gives you some type of advice or something they say is from God, should be somebody that you know, should be somebody that you understand their life.
Understand the concept here. I know you, Bill. If you come up to me and say, “I think I heard something from God, and I want to share it with you.” I’m going to listen. I’m also going to pray about it, but I know your life. Some random Joe Schmo that comes into church, don’t know if he’s demonized, don’t know his background. Don’t know anything about him, is going to speak a word over my life? No. Not going to happen. Just be careful, I guess is my advice. Let’s wrap this up, because I want to jump into demons.
You wind up out West, take a huge leap of faith to do that, because you’re leaving Ohio. You’re going out completely out West. Now, this makes sense, why you’re out there. You get this degree in Japanese. Let’s end with your wife. I think that’s a really good note to end on, with this aspect of your life. You meet her at university?
Bill West: We both went to the same college. We both registered and showed up there at the same quarter. I was going to a Bible college out there that I thought was hokey, sorry, but I won’t mention the name. She was going to a Christian college in Japan, all girls’ school. She hated every minute of it and wanted to come to America. She convinced her parents to let her come. I bailed out of that college and I thought–
Justin Daubenmire: The Christian college?
Bill West: The Christian college, because again, every day, I’m required to be there, almost all day. Have to be there Sunday, at church, Sunday night at church, Wednesday night at church, Friday night at church, and I thought, “I’m having no effect on nobody whatsoever.”
Justin Daubenmire: It wasn’t working for you.
Bill West: It wasn’t working for me. I went there. I didn’t know what I was going to go there for, except for that I thought, well– As you mentioned, there’s so many Asians there. If I go, I’ll just go study Japanese, but I’ll be able to meet and befriend Japanese students, and maybe become friends with them, and be able to share the gospel with them. I’m going to tell you, before I moved there, one more time, I said to God, “Okay, I’ll go to Seattle.” I don’t know anybody there. I’ll just pick up and go, I guess. [laughs]
He spoke very clearly to me. He said, “Bill West, you can stay here if you want to, but the fullness of my blessing is there in Seattle.” I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t know that it meant that I was going to find my wife there, and I didn’t know that my children would 25 years later, that I would look back and go, I know exactly what that means. That’s my wife and my kids.
Justin Daubenmire: Very cool.
Bill West: Which, when I was a young man, I didn’t even want kids. I vowed to never have children, and I’m like, my children are the best part of my life.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s awesome. You met your wife there. Were you guys in class together?
Bill West: I just was in the cafeteria. First quarter, I was there. I was looking for a seat, somewhere to sit. There was a great big round table. There was nobody there, but there was a stack of books. I happened to see a Japanese-English dictionary on the top of the stack of books. It was the table really, actually, that did have the most empty seats. I was like, “Cool, I’ll just sit here.” Then next thing I know, this person shows up, then another person shows up, then another person shows up, and here I am with all these Japanese students around me, and I just start talking to them.
Justin Daubenmire: In Japanese?
Bill West: I don’t remember. A little bit later on, Yukari shows up. There it is. We were just friends.
Justin Daubenmire: [crosstalk] you said it.
Bill West: No.
Justin Daubenmire: Oh, you were friends at first.
Bill West: No, we were just friends. We were just buddies. We’re cutting up and laughing like me and you laugh all the time, because she’s very funny.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s cool. That’s the best way to start a relationship, as friends, right?
Bill West: You see exactly who the person is.
Justin Daubenmire: Who they are.
Bill West: She gets to see me, too. I did realize at some point, that it was like a light bulb went off. I wasn’t even with her at the time. We weren’t together when this happened. I was just somewhere else, and she was doing whatever she was doing, and I knew– Something went off inside. I was like, “Well, that’s my wife.”
Justin Daubenmire: The light went on.
Bill West: Yes. I was like, “Oh, wow. That’s my wife.” I didn’t even know she was a Christian. I didn’t notice that. I was in a predicament, because I’m like, “Huh, that’s my wife.” Then I find out that she’s raised Christian, and she was raised in church. She doesn’t know and never did know another God.
Justin Daubenmire: Another confirmation?
Bill West: Yes. I guess.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s awesome. You guys have been married 21 years, right?
Bill West: Yes. 21 years.
Justin Daubenmire: Two beautiful children.
Bill West: Yes. Awesome.
Justin Daubenmire: Your daughter is in university now?
Bill West: Yes. Second year.
Justin Daubenmire: Your son is 14.
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s awesome.
Bill West: Be studying for his permit soon.
Justin Daubenmire: Yikes.
Bill West: [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Very cool. That’s cool, man.
Bill West: That’s how that end it’s up.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s cool.
Bill West: That’s how that ended up.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: Let’s transition now into talking about demons, demonization, the supernatural. Before I get into this, I just want to point out to the listeners. Does this man sound like somebody that has had demons? I’m looking at him right now, and I’m telling you, he got demons.
[laughter]
Bill West: Coo coo for cocoa puffs.
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
[laughter]
Bill West: Bouncing around like daffy duck. Woo hoo. Woo hoo.
[laughter]
Hang on, hang on. I got to spin my head around. Puke some green at you over there.
Justin Daubenmire: I think this is so important for people to understand. I believe that many people are demon-possessed in life. They have demons and they don’t know it. I think the reason that they don’t know it is because it’s always painted as psychological. I think it’s very common. It’s my intent, having this podcast, to bring people on, to let you see that these are “functional people in society” that had demons.
Bill West: Are you trying to say that–
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
[laughter]
Bill West: Excuse me, are you trying to say that society will maybe try to diagnose somebody that is having issues of some sort, as it being a psychological issue, and not a demonic issue?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. I think it’s very common now. I said this in another podcast of mine. It never can be 100% psychological, nor could it be 100% demons. Exorcism’s not a profession, it’s a ministry, but it needs to work in hand with psychologists, psychiatrists, and counselors. Put it this way. I was working with a counselor right after my own exorcism. During my time with him, I mentioned that I was studying to become an exorcist, and I’m going to get into this very soon. He shared with me that he had a client that was demon-possessed, and he couldn’t help him.
In fact, the young man actually wound up committing suicide. This counselor I was working with said, “If I would’ve better understood possession, or known of an exorcist to help him, this would’ve not happened.” This is from a professional licensed counselor that was helping me. After I went through my exorcism, I went for counseling for eight months, because left behind, is dysfunctional pattern, thought processes from having demons. Anyhow, that’s my point, is that we’re very rational in our thinking in America, in Western-type countries, and Canada, UK, and Australia, and it’s a good thing. I think psychology’s a wonderful thing, but I think coupled with exorcism, people can actually receive complete healing. I guess, that’s my point.
Bill West: I don’t think that our culture knows what to do with something, that they cannot, or at least they don’t think that they can apply the scientific method to.
Justin Daubenmire: Correct.
Bill West: You can, actually.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: You can be spiritually correct. You don’t have to be politically correct.
Justin Daubenmire: True.
Bill West: That’s how it gets [crosstalk].
Justin Daubenmire: When I went through my exorcist training, it is very methodical, and for a lack of better word, it is almost scientific-like. We’re working with data. This is what drew me to the exorcist I work with, Dr. Bob Larson, is that he performed over 50,000 exorcisms, so he had the data.
Bill West: You mean he kept track of it, he tracked it?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: Wait. In an Excel spreadsheet or something?
Justin Daubenmire: No, no, no, no. He–
Bill West: I mean, he could have, I’m just asking.
Justin Daubenmire: Experience, when I say data, I mean experience. He has experience. As a software engineer, I’m looking at this man saying, okay, he’s performed over 50,000 exorcisms. He has a method, and he has a wealth of experience. If anyone could help me, it’s going to be this guy, and he did. I’m demon-free today because of working with him, so I trained under his processes, and they’re very analytical. There’s no hype to it. It’s not screaming and jumping around. I mean, he’s very– What’s the word for him? Very extroverted in his exorcism style, but the techniques and methods that he uses is, you’re trained academically.
What I’m trying to get at is, I want people to understand that you can have demons, and not be aware of it. I want to show people that “normal people” can have demons. That’s why you’re here in the studio.
Bill West: What we talked about was that at least, in our culture, people have– That it’s not always just psychological. Sometimes, it’s psychological and spiritual. It’s not always just spiritual. Sometimes, it’s spiritual, and there’s a psychological point of the entire thing.
Justin Daubenmire: Correct.
Bill West: Those things need to be married back together.
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly. That’s my point. That’s a great way of putting it. Married back together, where– Okay, a counselor is not an exorcist. I have another friend that was seeing a counselor, she was not an exorcist. She’d seen demons manifest in my friend, and tried to find an exorcist to help her, because she wasn’t, but she was able to recognize and see the possession, the eyes dilating, completely black, and no whites, and different voices speaking through her. She did not have schizophrenia or anything like this. She found an exorcist to help this woman. That’s one example. It’s like, to your point, marrying these things up is a good thing.
[music].
Justin Daubenmire: As you know, most Christians in America, Canada, Australia, these types of modernized “Western countries”, do not believe that Christians can have demons. You used to be in that camp, correct?
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: Let’s talk about when you’re in Japan as a missionary.
Bill West: Okay.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re over there as a missionary, you don’t believe Christians can have demons at this point, correct?
Bill West: Yes. Again, like so many things, I never really processed it or thought about it. It was like a spur-of-the-moment thing. I was like– had to decide. To me, it was just unconscionable when I just suddenly, I guess, had to make a decision as to whether this was even possible. I never even thought about whether or not a person, whether Christian or non-Christian could have one.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, you are a Christian, you are a missionary, you’re in Japan.
Bill West: I was in Hong Kong. I went to Japan for a year. During that year, the school system shuts down one month, the month of August. By the way, if you don’t like our education system, think about only having one month off. Do you want your children to only have one month off, and have a bunch of homework? Anyways, I ended up going and taking that, it was supposed to be a missions year, a ministry year. I did not go into the year expecting to have a vacation. I expected to do something the entire time.
When I found out that I had four to five weeks where nothing was really going to happen, because just face it, missionaries that live in another country, that’s their occupation. They do need to have vacation just like any other minister, and the Japanese people, the lay people, or even pastors, they need to have a vacation. During their vacation, I went to yet another country, to a completely unrelated ministry, and volunteered my month, my vacation month.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re in Hong Kong?
Bill West: In Hong Kong, which is connected, is an island off of the coast of China, if you don’t know, and it belonged to, at the time, the United Kingdom.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. You’re in this church over there volunteering.
Bill West: Correct.
Justin Daubenmire: A man is there ministering. What happened?
Bill West: That’s right. I’m there, I am in a camp where, St. Stephen’s Society, is the name of the ministry there, they had camp setup for– See, this ministry was really to drug addicted, homeless, lifelong prostitutes, male and female. People that were just caught up in the gang triads life of crime. People were– it was multi-generational. I mean, I saw really, really old grandmas and grandpas there, living in absolute squalor. Then I saw teenagers also, that were probably their grandchildren, and they may not have even known them, but they were drug-addicted prostitutes that would get pregnant, and if they didn’t abort, then they had a child that was born into that.
Justin Daubenmire: Which is– I mean, we won’t talk about, but this whole concept of the ancestral curses, I mean, passed on from generation to generation.
Bill West: I mean, that’s on steroids right there.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. It’s amazing how tangible it is, how you can see it in families, that these ancient curses, these demons that enter a family lineage, are passed on from parent to parent, to child to child, all the way down [crosstalk].
Bill West: Sometimes, it just has to do with, I don’t know if it’s the right word to say, logistics, but if you have a drug addicted mom living on the streets, she’s a prostitute, and all she does– what are the chances of you as a child, you’re not going to grow up normal. You’re going to grow up in that. I went there to just try to be of some service. I just told them, I said, “Look, if you want me to come over and just clean bathrooms.” Before I even got there, I didn’t know it was a hole in the ground. “If you want me to come over and clean bathrooms, whatever you want me to do, I’ll just come and do it. I just want to come and be a part for this one month. I don’t want to waste it. I want to give it to you.”
I went, and when I went, they had a conference. In America, we would call it a conference. A man from England was there preaching. Talk about dry. He had absolutely no emotion whatsoever.
[laughter]
He was just like–
Justin Daubenmire: Sorry, guys. We’re American, we’re very flamboyant here in America.
Bill West: Yes. Like, Daffy duck, Woo hoo. Woo hoo. He was there, and he was preaching. He was preaching to a bunch of kids that were– some of them were there probably because the court system made them, because they got busted doing something, and sometimes, they would let them go to this ministry that as far as the government was concerned, a rehab. Yes, he was there, and he was preaching. He was talking about soul ties, and he was teaching on the soul tie. He gave as a demonstration. He just had, I don’t know, he probably asked a young lady to come up, and he said, just as an example.
Justin Daubenmire: This guy’s on stage giving an example of a soul tie with a girl?
Bill West: Right, and a guy. He then brings up another girl, and he says, “Okay, let’s just say that she’s never slept with a man other than him, but he slept with her, her and her, you three come up here.” Then he just continued to build upon that by the time he had like 20 people there and he says, “If you’ve become one flesh now, haven’t you all become, basically, one flesh?” The tie between the original two, he says, “Now, she’s tied to these people over here.” She didn’t even know them.
Justin Daubenmire: Spiritually, you’re speaking?
Bill West: Spiritually, that’s what we’re talking about. Later on, he sent them back to their seats but it was just interesting that he led them in a prayer to start breaking the soul ties.
Justin Daubenmire: What happened?
Bill West: Mayhem. [laughter] Absolute mayhem.
Justin Daubenmire: I said, “The devil, come out.”
Bill West: He didn’t have to say that.
Justin Daubenmire: No, I know. I just am kidding–
Bill West: He started breaking them soul ties. The demons went bananas. I had never actually been in the presence of-
Justin Daubenmire: Of a demon?
Bill West: -an exorcism. Oh, I’ve been in the presence of demons but they were content and happy. [laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: They weren’t ready.
Bill West: They didn’t have to come out. They weren’t expected to come out. Some of them were in the people selling drugs on the corner and some of them were on the church boards that I’ve been in or around. They were in the pew.
Justin Daubenmire: They’re manifesting all over the place. You’re seeing this?
Bill West: They were puking, spitting and screaming, salivating all over the place, convulsing on the ground. He never, not even for a second, showed any surprise, loss-
Justin Daubenmire: Shock, anything.
Bill West: -shock, loss of control. I’m thinking of this in retrospect and I’m like, “Did you know you were going to do this group deliverance?” I think he did.
Justin Daubenmire: At this point, just to focus on, the point here is that–
Bill West: I know where we’re at. I’m sitting here and I’m seeing all this, and I’m thinking, “This is crazy.” I’m actually borderline offended because I know these people. Here was one of the most wonderful experiences in my entire life as a Christian bar none was being in that tent with hundreds of these Chinese teenagers and young adults and even old people, and to see the level of worship and praise and exuberance.
Justin Daubenmire: Before this, these people were worshipping.
Bill West: Yes, like you’ve never seen before. Justin, when I pause when I’m telling you this, I’m pausing so that I don’t tear up. It was like that.
Justin Daubenmire: I understand because I’ve heard that from Russia. Same thing. They were worshipping and I bawled like a baby.
Bill West: Oh my goodness.
Justin Daubenmire: It was the most beautiful worship I’ve ever heard of these Russian Christians, man.
Bill West: I got a songbook. These are songs that I don’t want you to misunderstand — The music I’m describing, this is all Vineyard music, I think. It’s contemporary at the time. I did have a songbook and it had all the Chinese characters, and how to say them phonetically, so I’m singing along and I’m worshipping with them, but I have no idea what I’m saying. Unless I happen to know the song, then I at least had an inkling.
Oh my goodness. If I could take every human being and put them inside of me and experience that, I can’t even describe that.
Justin Daubenmire: I get it. I get it. Right after, these people–
Bill West: Right after that, they’re spitting and puking, [laughter] and I’m just like, “What do I do with this?” Because these people were Christians. “They can’t have demons. What are they doing? Get up off of the floor?” At the same time, I’m praying for them. It was like the biggest conundrum in the world for me because I’m like, “What is going on?” I’m like, “All right.”
Justin Daubenmire: I’m cracking up but here’s the thing, you couldn’t ask for a more concise, clear evidence that Christians can be demonized.
Bill West: Correct.
Justin Daubenmire: Dude, I’ve never been around anything like this. I know what you’re talking about. That type of worship is just so– and I know many listening have been in that style of worship, where it’s just beautiful, and then the next thing you know, boom, all chaos. That’s a lot to process. Obviously, you didn’t process that immediately. You probably had to think through this for a few days?
Bill West: A few days? One characteristic of myself which makes me probably a terrible leader is that I do not process well on the spot. I am the kind of person that goes away, won’t say anything, but I’ll go away with an opinion. Then, I will gather as much information as I can, pore over it, reformulate my opinion if I have to, or solidify what I already think.
So I bought his book. I’m like, “This guy is an absolute heretic. There’s no way. This is impossible. I don’t know what I’m looking at. I know what I’m saying. It doesn’t make any sense to me,” to the point where I’m offended, but at the same time, I’m not offended at those people at all. Somehow or another, I’m offended at him. [laughter] “How dare you.”
Justin Daubenmire: For doing this to your friends. For making them believe that they had demons–
Bill West: “How dare you break those soul ties.” [laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: “How dare you free them from devils.”
Bill West: “These were perfectly good teenagers before.”
Justin Daubenmire: “How dare you come in here, stirring things up.”
Bill West: Stirring things up. I buy this guy’s book-
Justin Daubenmire: Which, by the way, guys– Sorry to interrupt, Bill, if you’ve listened to Episode One, you remember me telling you in that episode that Bill had read one book on soul ties. This is the one.
Bill West: It was not just on soul ties, that book went through soul ties, but it went through the whole idea of whether or not a Christian could have a demon and/or what demonization is. That’s where I got the term myself, demonization.
He had probably a whole chapter on, Are you possessed? No, you’re not possessed. You’re possessed by Jesus Christ. There’s somebody there usurping and trying to influence you and, whatever, drag you off.
Justin Daubenmire: That’s a good point. I just want to mention it, that–
Bill West: It was a pretty thorough book. That’s all I’m trying to say about that, really.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, I remember because you loaned it to me. It’s very thick. I actually scanned it.
Bill West: Right. It’s probably about an inch and a half thick. It was pretty thorough. You can get that book. You can’t get it on audio but Ellel Grange Ministries is out of England and it’s written by Peter Horrobin. It’s a great resource. Again, plugging a ministry there but I don’t have anything to gain. All I want is people to be as free as what I saw.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure. Exactly, yes. There are Christians listening to us right now and they’re saying that you and I are heresy and this is ridiculous but what I’d like to explain to people is that we are a three-part being. God is triad, he’s three-part. God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Holy Spirit. He created us this way.
We are three parts. Our soul is our mind and our emotions. That’s our soul. Our spirit belongs to Jesus Christ when we become born again. Then, we have our physical bodies, what the Bible calls flesh, or whatever.
Bill West: That’s right.
Justin Daubenmire: Our soul is what becomes demonized, or I will say possessed. Either way, there’s an area in the mind that is not under your control. If you really stop and think, there are areas of your life that probably are out of control. You’ve tried to overcome them. Pastors, ministers, have told you that it’s your sinful nature, “Read the Bible more, pray more,” but no matter what, you just cannot seem to get the victory over whatever the struggle is in your life, that you’re dealing with. This is demonization.
A very common one is pornography. The amount of women and men that I’ve met through the years of my Christianity that hated pornography, absolutely hated it, wanted nothing to do with it but they couldn’t stop.
They couldn’t understand why this area of their life– all other areas of their Christian walk were fine, but in this area, it was as though they were a slave.
It’s what I tell people, if you’re a slave, you have a master. That area of the mind, the soul, the emotions, our thoughts, our vision, our fantasy, our imaginations, that area of the mind, is what Bill West is calling demonized, I say possessed. Those are just words. The bottom line is there’s a demon there that has control.
That’s what gets expelled. It’s not in your spirit. Your Spirit belongs to Jesus Christ, it’s sacred, can never get into your spirit, but your mind? Absolutely. That’s what we’re trying to convey here. This is what–
Bill West: There was something that was like a realization that I needed to have, and that was that– even as I was seeing it, I was thinking to myself this thought, and I think that a lot of Christians think this thought, “The Holy Spirit would never share His base with the devil. Therefore this cannot be happening.”
A, to that, I have to answer back to myself after having taken and gone and grabbed as much information as I can and reformulated what I really believed about it, was that A, the Holy Spirit was not sharing His space with the demons because he used that minister to kick them out. That’s the whole point.
Justin Daubenmire: Good point.
Bill West: There’s one thing, and the other point is, where are those demons? They’re here on the earth. Where’s the Holy Spirit? It’s here too. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: They’re sharing.
Bill West: They’re not in any kind of a mutual agreement. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly.
Bill West: I’m not trying to say that. They’re not saying, “That’s yours and this is mine.”
Justin Daubenmire: Well, you bring up a great point. The mutual agreement. They’re both on the Earth so to speak. They also both can be in different parts of our makeup and there is no mutual agreement.
Bill West: There’s no mutual agreement.
Justin Daubenmire: The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ inside of our spirit wants these demons out of our soul, of our mind and emotions. Those demons don’t want to let that go. This is why people struggle in areas of their lives and cannot seem to overcome it.
Bill West: Sometimes that’s because of choices that they made.
Justin Daubenmire: You bring up a good point. Sorry to interrupt you.
Bill West: That’s all right.
Justin Daubenmire: Really, there are three ways that demons get into our soul, our mind and emotions. Number one, things we’ve done. Number two, things that have been done to us, and then number three, ancestral curses. Those are the top three ways that demons get into us. Like for me, I’m out to the soul tie concept you’re explaining. I mean, my teen years, dude? [chuckles]
I mean, I was with, like I said in another episode, I was definitely not a player, but I was with a handful of women and got demons and lots of them from just a handful of women. When I say a handful, it was not many at all. Then things done to you, rejection. When a parent rejects someone, when a parent abandons someone, when a parent physically beats someone, sexually molests them, incest and things done to the person, demons get into a person’s soul at that point.
Then the ancestral curses, things that, and we can see this just in simple examples of maybe alcoholism. My great grandfather was an alcoholic. His father was an alcoholic. My father was an alcoholic. I was an alcoholic too till I broke that curse off of my bloodline.
Bill West: I feel like I want to interject one little–
Justin Daubenmire: Go ahead. I’m almost done. Sorry for cutting you off.
Bill West: I’m not even going back to what I was saying. I just want to point out that that’s a great example. People always think about that one maybe. That also applies to behaviors that are not necessarily this– jealousy. Maybe I am a jealous person, my mom was a jealous person. My grandfather, you could just see this-
Justin Daubenmire: Controlling. That’s another one.
Bill West: -like a thread. It could be controlling, manipulation, whatever. I mean, it doesn’t have to be promiscuity. It could be-
Justin Daubenmire: -anything, really.
Bill West: -overeating. [laughs]
Justin Daubenmire: Which was mine.
Bill West: Ridiculously overeating.
Justin Daubenmire: I talked about that. I had binge eating. I talked about that in my episode. Absolutely.
Bill West: Right. I don’t necessarily think that those are all demonic even, but it is a trait that gets passed on and it can become because you get into by things you’re doing. You’re really you’re in agreement with the dark side. [laughs] No but really, I joke about that.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: You read this book-
Bill West: I read the book.
Justin Daubenmire: -and you’re like “Okay. Christian’s got demons.” You get your head around that. You’re like, ‘Okay.” Let’s talk now about some of the situations where you personally experienced demons, to answer the question.
Bill West: Interestingly is that, like I said, get the information, gather it up, research with prayer and realize that not only am I wrong, but I have one. That was what I came out the other side with. [laughter] Not only was I wrong, but that’s my problem. At least partially.
Justin Daubenmire: Things do seem a little bit more clear when you accept this. Your life seems to make more sense, strangely enough.
Bill West: Sometimes. Because sometimes when you– I mean, who doesn’t, who hasn’t said to themselves in absolute frustration, “Oh, why do I keep doing this?”
Justin Daubenmire: Right. Or “What’s wrong with me?”
Bill West: Because you don’t want to. [laughs] You know what I mean?
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly.
Bill West: I’m not saying– I’m just saying, everybody ends up slipping up here and there or doing something. It might just be something that maybe you vowed to yourself that you would never do again or whatever that is, whether it be something you physically do or something that you thought or something that you said.
Justin Daubenmire: Can I guide you into one of your situations that I think is on–?
Bill West: Sure. Pertinent?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. and I think it’s a very solid case for Christians being demonized. Japan and the temple.
Bill West: That was still Hong Kong. What happened is, [chuckles] it’s just odd. This is a story of God’s love.
Justin Daubenmire: Mercy.
Bill West: Here I go, that was my first week in Hong Kong. That’s what I saw. That’s how it starts off. I end up for the last two weeks in this fishing village where you’ve got to go from the island of Hong Kong to the mainland part of Hong Kong. Take a bus, 45 minutes up over the mountains. Walking another half hour through this little fishing village. I mean, it’s to the point where it’s an adventure because I at one point have to cross a river [laughs] and there’s these little old ladies in an old wooden boat, and there’s a rope going.
It’s not a big river, there’s a rope going across it. You flip them a coin and they pull the boat across and you get off the other side. Walking way back in here, there’s an abandoned school that the Hong Kong government gave to that ministry. I think they’re called St. Peter Society or something like that. They have these drug-addicted– It was a camp for boys. There were all these teenage boys and that’s where the government said, “Either go to rehab or go to jail.”
So they went to rehab. In this rehab, that’s Christian-run, these kids get saved. They get filled with the Holy Spirit and they get delivered from drugs and they speak no English, zero. Nobody in the whole village speaks English except me. [laughs] I don’t speak any Chinese at all. None. I studied Japanese. It’s completely different. It’s the difference between English and French. It’s completely different.
So I have absolutely nothing to do for two weeks, except for pray for these kids and read this book. I read that book. I read another book, too. There I was. That’s how I come out of oh… There were two temples in the village. I was walking through the village and I looked at this one temple, I don’t remember what this particular one was. I just was mad that it was there because these people were serving these, basically serving demons out of fear. At least that was my perception. I started to say, pray.
Justin Daubenmire: You went into the temple?
Bill West: No. Hang on, I’ll get there. That one, I’m on my way back to where I was staying. I don’t know, I’d been out walking around the village or whatever and I’m praying, and I’m saying, prophesying basically, but more or less out of my own self because I know these things will be torn down at some point. The Lord will return. He will destroy all of the temples to other gods. That’s going to happen.
On my way, right before you get to my place where I was staying, there was a temple that was devoted to the monkey god.
Justin Daubenmire: [laughs]
Bill West: That one. The first one was up on a hill and I would have had to make an effort to get in there. This one was really easily accessible and I’m lazy.
Justin Daubenmire: Now, it’s funny you mentioned a monkey god because that could have been Chinese, but it’s very common in the Hindu religion. They have a monkey god.
Bill West: Yes and I’m sure it’s the same one because Buddhism and Hinduism, they’re–
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, Buddhism come out of Hinduism.
Bill West: Yes. It’s like socialism and communism. It’s the same.
Justin Daubenmire: So you’re at this monkey god temple.
Bill West: I go inside of that one and I start saying, “The Lord is– This temple is going to be destroyed in Jesus name, blah, blah, blah,” this kind of thing and I walk out. Then I go into– After that, it starts becoming a very dark time in my life. I don’t know why I’m there, my grandfather’s in the hospital, he’s dying and I was very close with my grandparents. Anyways, I want to shorten up the story.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. Let’s get back to where you’re back in America now.
Bill West: I’m coming back to America, but by the time I get, we’re done with my year in Japan. I had to go from August all the way back to, I think, April before I was done and life just went downhill. This was probably– outside of drug addiction, this is definitely by far the darkest time in my life. It was very difficult.
Justin Daubenmire: Do you think that this started– I know there’s a lot of contributing factors, but it started with the monkey temple.
Bill West: Yes. I think so.
Justin Daubenmire: You went downhill, it’s really a dark time in your life.
Bill West: When I say a dark time, I’ve told you before that I used to go back to my apartment at night and turn the lights off and sit there in the dark for hours, no TV, no radio, just me sitting there depressed.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: I come back to the States and the very first service that I went back to church, I walk in and–
Justin Daubenmire: Now, this was the church, I’m sorry to interrupt.
Bill West: It’s okay.
Justin Daubenmire: This is the church that was sponsoring you as a missionary.
Bill West: They sent me.
Justin Daubenmire: Okay, they sent you. You’re back at the church that sent you as a missionary, it’s a year later, you’re at the monkey temple, you walk into church.
Bill West: Everybody’s worshipping, it’s the praise– The praise service is already going. I remember looking over them and it was as if I went from a place where I saw something similar to when I saw those teenagers in Hong Kong to six months later walking into that church and I looked at them praising and worshipping God and I couldn’t remember why they were doing it.
I just walk in and I’m standing there and I’m looking around, it was just weird. It was like an amazement or something and I’m just standing there kind of, I don’t know, shocked.
Justin Daubenmire: Your thought processes are way off from– You’re a Christian missionary coming back into a worship service.
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: You should know what this is, why they’re there. You should be excited to join in with them-
Bill West: Exactly.
Justin Daubenmire: -but instead, you’re absolutely baffled.
Bill West: I can’t figure out why. I just remember thinking, “Why are they doing this?” I’ve just seen six months prior in Hong Kong, I knew why they were doing it. I was doing it with them. It was the most wonderful thing I ever saw in my life.
Come back to seeing the same thing in my home church and I’m like, “Huh.” Somebody comes up behind me and this girl that went to the church or this lady, she came up, she put her hand on my back. I have to stop right there, stop right there. I need to tell you that I knew by the time I was done with that book that I needed deliverance ministry myself and I could not get it in Japan because I did not trust the people around me.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: I was begging God, “You got to help me, You got to do this, You’ve got to get this out of me.” I didn’t know how to go about it. I didn’t– again-
Justin Daubenmire: I feel you.
Bill West: -I didn’t trust the people that were around that I was with.
Justin Daubenmire: So this woman?
Bill West: She comes up and she prays for me and God wastes no time, zero. The minute I am back into a place where I know that I’m loved, He does it. Now, I could have really been done a solid and have this not happen in front of 500 people. [laughter]
Justin Daubenmire: Somebody’s going to humble you. [laughs] Actually, let me interject this and then I’ll shut up because we’re at the good part here now, guys, this is going to get really good, but I want to say that Jesus Christ always did public exorcisms. He never took anyone aside into a room and said, “Let’s do this over here out of the way.”
Bill West: Yes, I don’t know. I don’t know if he did or didn’t, but seems like everybody knew Mary Magdalene and all the demons that he kicked out.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, but I’m saying what we have–
Bill West: That’s public knowledge.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. The examples we have of him doing exorcism, they’re all public.
Bill West: Because when we talk about that, why would He want to hide that?
Justin Daubenmire: It’s a demonstration of His supreme power.
Bill West: And His love.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: He didn’t say, “Blind Bartimaeus, let’s go in a room over here, let me pray for you.”
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: Right. Why would He do that?
Justin Daubenmire: Or the little boy that was epileptic with the demon throwing him into the fire. He didn’t say, “Hey, let’s get him out of here.”
Bill West: Let’s go where– somewhere where it’s not embarrassing for Him.
Justin Daubenmire: God doesn’t break His, I guess, pattern.
Bill West: He doesn’t care.
Justin Daubenmire: He doesn’t care. [laughs] Got old Bill West in front of 500 people. Imagine this now, guys, what is this, a Sunday morning worship?
Bill West: Yes. [laughter] Prime time, baby, WWF. She comes and she prays for me. All of a sudden, these demons just start kicking up and I’ve started screaming. I don’t even know what’s going on really at that point. I don’t know that I’m going to get deliverance ministry. I don’t know that it’s them screaming through me. It’s not really me. I end up facedown on the floor and I have probably three or four really large men. Now, again-
Justin Daubenmire: Confining you.
Bill West: -these people love me. They’re on my back and I know that I know that I’m cooperating, but if I wanted, if I hadn’t cooperated, I would have threw big Ed across the room. I’m laying there.
Justin Daubenmire: In other words, you had demonic strength.
Bill West: Yes, that’s right.
Justin Daubenmire: We’ve seen this in the Bible with the guy in the tombs that had legion, he broke the chains right off of him. They couldn’t even confine them because there is supernatural strength that when you’re demonized, that happens.
This is interesting that you’re aware of this, you’re co-conscious. There’s two states of demonization, either black out like I did with the pretty pink shirt or you’re co-conscious, you have an awareness of what’s going on. You’re co-conscious, these demons manifest, they’re screaming, guys tackle you down. You’re like you know that if you’d really let this thing go, you could throw him liker rag doll.
Bill West: If I cooperated.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: I could have actually harnessed it if I wanted to.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, right. Praise God, you didn’t.
Bill West: Absolutely. There were some very specific ones that I knew where they came from. I didn’t know at the time that I was getting them, but the Lord showed me and I had to tell them what is this thing because they didn’t know. I had to tell them.
Justin Daubenmire: Which is another whole can of worms, how people aren’t even trained to truly deal with the trenches of demonization and spiritual warfare. They have no–
Bill West: That’s right. They didn’t know. Just as a side note, I don’t really want to go down this rabbit trail, but I was in a death metal band a long time ago and I remember there were bands that we were playing, songs that we were playing and I know that I know where they came from is when I got those demons. They were from, I’m not saying all of that music is, I’m not a fan of it now, I’m just saying that I knew where they came from.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: We kicked them out. That was not really a big issue, but something that was “hanging on”– My pastor comes down off of the platform because he’s about had enough of this and he sees– Almost like Jesus when He came down off the mountain, you brought up the epileptic boy, and the disciples could not cast it out. These guys are not getting the job done. They did some.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: No fault of their own, but he comes down and I’m not even looking at him. I’m looking down. My face is in the carpet on the floor and I feel him and I could sort of see him. I think it was them seeing him coming down and he said, “Hey, you, get out of there.” That was all it was. [laughs]
There was all this drama going on and these other guys couldn’t really, but he comes walking down and he’s like, “You, get out.” He’s, “Hey, you, get out of there,” just pointed, just, “All right, get out of here,” and it did. A friend of mine, she happened to be that she was up on the altar also just sitting on the side basically while he was preaching when I– or no, not preaching but she was up there. Whatever, she was up there. They would always have some elders or maybe pastors, they would be up there sitting down or whatever.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure. Yes.
Bill West: She comes up to me later and she said, “I could see when you came in.” She goes, “You had this thing like a great big monkey that was hanging on your back.”
Justin Daubenmire: How interesting.
Bill West: That was the thing that had to go that when he came down and said, “Hey, you get out of here,” that was the thing that left. She said, “I’ve seen it leave.” She saw it on your back. It was hanging on you like a monkey.
Justin Daubenmire: Amazing.
Bill West: When she told me that, even now, it makes my skin crawl because I know where it came from.
Justin Daubenmire: That temple?
Bill West: That came from that temple.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes.
Bill West: I was absolutely dumbfounded. I’m like, “How could this be?” Because then, it turned from not only can I have one or two or three, “God, could You let that go on?” A, it was merciful for him because I couldn’t get deliverance ministry when I initially knew.
Here I am six months of my life that I know they’re there. I don’t know what to do and I can’t get rid of them. I can’t talk to anybody about it.
Justin Daubenmire: This is the sadness of it all. I was the same way but mine was 30 years. I couldn’t find anyone to help me. I knew I had demons and so forth. This was not the case in the early churches in first, second, third century. Exorcism was a way of life back then.
Bill West: True.
Justin Daubenmire: It was readily available. You got to figure, Paul, Peter, these guys, they’re coming into Greek and Roman culture where everyone’s possessed from the demon gods and-
Bill West: They are possessed because Christ is not their Lord at that point.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. They’re exercising these demons, getting them out publicly, people were becoming Christians. That’s the number one way they led people to Jesus Christ back then was through public display of the power of Jesus Christ, this supreme power, and like you said, love of Jesus Christ.
Through the years, the Catholic Church, not to go off on this rabbit trail, but they’ve had exorcism forever. It’s only the Protestant Church that came up with this idea. I think it started, some of it in America where Christians can’t have demons because how old is this country now? What?
Bill West: 225-ish. 250.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. Yes, we don’t have this history of occultic practices in this land like Africa.
Bill West: We don’t recognize them but we have them.
Justin Daubenmire: Right. We do. We do.
Bill West: They’re not overt.
Justin Daubenmire: We don’t have temples with ancient gods where we did sacrifices-
Bill West: No. Right.
Justin Daubenmire: or Demon gods in the history of America. People understand in these other countries that there are demons, that people can have demons. Christian missionaries that go into other countries, Japan, India, parts of China, and again, Africa, South America, all of these countries have had deep entrenched occultic practices through the years with their gods and their deities.
Christian missionaries go in there, they have no problem believing that Christians can have demons because of this. Nor do the people. They’re like you and me, “We got demons. I want to get rid of them.” In America and other countries, I’m not picking on America, Australia-
Bill West: Sure.
Justin Daubenmire: -and UK, and stuff like that but these are the countries that I’m aware of that in Canada, Christians can’t have demons and it’s so sad because every week, thousands of Christians leave church. They celebrate Jesus. They worship the Lord. They get in the car. They’re driving home. The next day or two days later, they’re in emotional torment and they don’t understand why.
They think, “Oh, man. I got to read my Bible more or I just need to pray more.” Some of them are very abstract with the devil and demons like, “I need to fight the devil. He’s after me.” No, no, no. Evil is a person. It’s not a thing. There are demons.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: The other demonic thing that you experienced that I found quite fascinating was with the parents and the knife.
Bill West: Oh, my gosh, yes.
Justin Daubenmire: Can you tell the people about this one? This one is extremely fascinating.
Bill West: Again, I had already been to Japan, actually. I’d been a Christian for quite some time and I was just laying in bed.
Justin Daubenmire: At your parents? You’re still with your parents at this point.
Bill West: Yes, because I’m in a lot of transition.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: I’m not a full-time minister. I don’t have a bunch of people donating to me on a regular basis so I still have to take odd jobs here and there. Don’t know where I’m going to go.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re working through it.
Bill West: I’m working through it.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re staying with your parents. You’re laying in bed?
Bill West: Yes, I’m laying in bed and many times. It didn’t just happen once. It got stronger and stronger that I started having these thoughts that I should kill my parents. They’re in the next room. I just was like, “Get out of here, devil. Whatever.” Everybody has these random thoughts, but they were just–
Justin Daubenmire: Growing in intensity.
Bill West: Yes, but it’s just was more than a thought. It was almost something that I could-
Justin Daubenmire: Yield to.
Bill West: -that it was something being pressed upon me. It wasn’t my thought. Over time, and not a lot of time, I’m just going to say maybe a week, it just was stronger and stronger and stronger. It got to the point where I could discern that there was something in my room. Where it was, I could–
Justin Daubenmire: Sense it.
Bill West: Yes, I could see it with my spiritual eyes that I could see the outline. It was so strong of a compulsion. I knew what was going on. I can’t say I was like, “What was going on?” I knew what was going on.
Justin Daubenmire: Right.
Bill West: I just had my Bible. I’m not typically the person that says I’m going to use this Bible as a, I don’t know-
Justin Daubenmire: A weapon.
Bill West: -physically. Not physically, but I had this Bible open. I’m gripping it to my chest. I’m reading it. I’m reading it. I’m commanding the devil to leave. “Get out of here. Get out of here. Get out of here. Get out of here.” Eventually, it does get out of there.
Justin Daubenmire: Okay, but at a certain point, I remember you told me that it actually was compelling you to get a knife.
Bill West: Yes. Specifically, go to the kitchen, get a knife, and kill your parents in their bed. Now, I love my parents. I don’t want to kill my parents.
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly.
Bill West: You know what I mean?
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: I wouldn’t do that. Odd. It’s just an out-of-the-blue thing. The point that I know that you’re getting to is that that night, probably about maybe half a mile down the road, a teenage boy did go into the kitchen in the middle of the night, get out a knife and he went and stabbed his parents in their bed.
Justin Daubenmire: Murdered them.
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: Which is exactly what that thing was.
Bill West: Which is exactly what that thing was trying to get me to do. The scripture says the devil goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. He could not devour me but it did devour some people. Man, what an eye-opening experience.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, the reality of how real that this is.
Bill West: Now, however, I did not have some kind of thing that had to be exercised for me but there’s the point that something came along. I don’t know why. It almost seemed random.
Justin Daubenmire: A lot of times, if there’s openings in our lives that we don’t know about, they could leverage it.
Bill West: Sure.
Justin Daubenmire: Just like in Proverbs where it talks about, I don’t remember the exact wording of this scripture, but a curse isn’t going to land on someone without cause. That’s, a lot of times, how witchcraft works is they look for entry points that are still open in our minds, in our lives that they could leverage when casting a curse.
Bill West: Just to see if I can kind of thing. I guess.
Justin Daubenmire: Yes. Very interesting. This was in your 20s, right?
Bill West: Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: You’ve had a decent amount of supernatural phenomena and deliverance exorcism in your 20s?
Bill West: Yes, I would say so. Yes, in my 20s. I was definitely in my 20s.
Justin Daubenmire: You and I worked together here, was it this year last year on an exorcism? We don’t got to get into the specifics of it.
Bill West: It’s probably about a year ago.
Justin Daubenmire: About a year ago?
Bill West: About a year ago.
Justin Daubenmire: Okay, you would have been about, what, 54-ish?
Bill West: 54. Yes.
Justin Daubenmire: The reason I mentioned this, and again, not to get into the specifics of it, but your mid- to late-20s you go through some and then in your mid-50s almost 25 years later, you’re going through more. And I think it’s an important concept to understand for people that maybe have been through deliverance or are going through deliverance/exorcism, that sometimes it’s more than one time, different times in your life and that’s normal.
Bill West: I’m wondering, you and I–
Justin Daubenmire: I’m sorry. Let me just finish this.
Bill West: Go ahead.
Justin Daubenmire: I think a lot of times people think that it’s one and done and that’s it and you never have to have another one again, but I wish it was that simple. Like I’m working with exorcists often, as you know, I meet with them all the time and there’s an exorcist that just said in our meeting this past week, that he needs to go through more deliverance.
This person has been an exorcist for, I’m going to say every bit of 20 to 25 years because there’s areas in our lives that maybe we’re not aware of, or maybe we’re not ready for yet, so God in His mercy keeps them aside out of the way. Then as we grow in God, He surfaces things. I think that’s common. As we grow with God, God’s like, “Hey, you need to quit smoking pot,” or–
Bill West: There’s areas obviously that you may–
Justin Daubenmire: That’s what I’m saying.
Bill West: You could even equate that with just the Lord bringing up somebody in your memory that you haven’t forgiven.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: Something like that.
Justin Daubenmire: Exactly.
Bill West: It wasn’t one and done, there have been people that I had to maybe forgive for saying or doing something to me a long time ago, that I never even really think about them, but if I do think about them out of the clear blue or situations happen that are similar that trigger me to think about it, I could be bitter or unforgiving or whatever.
Justin Daubenmire: Sure.
Bill West: Anyhow my point is– I think we’re all that way.
Justin Daubenmire: You’re absolutely right. That just things that surface, so I just wanted to point out to anyone that maybe has been through an exorcism or what Christians call deliverance ministry, that if you’re seeing things surface in your life and you’re like, “Wait a minute, I thought I was delivered, thought I was fully exorcised, what’s going on?” it’s like layers of an onion.
You take a layer off and maybe a year or two later, there’s another layer comes off, God really orchestrates this. He knows what we can handle when we can handle it. I just wanted to throw that out there as encouragement for people that it’s not that you’ve let things back into your life. It’s not that you’re a failure. It’s not that it didn’t work. It’s that it’s just a new layer. Try to keep that in mind.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: Bill, thank you very much for coming here and sharing your life with all of us.
Bill West: Sure. You’re welcome.
Justin Daubenmire: I know that people probably hearing you could connect with many of the things you’re saying. I always ask people this at the end. Do you have any words of encouragement to people that might be struggling with the idea that Christians can have a demon or people who maybe know they have demons and are afraid to move forward, to go through an exorcism or deliverance? Any type of encouragement that you can offer to people?
Bill West: For one thing I just would like to say that, I don’t know. I just feel led to say that, there are probably places that– it’s not probably, there are places that were in my life that are in the lives of a lot of people, where they think they’re doing something that is just completely harmless, completely harmless that you maybe, I don’t want to pick on this, maybe in a band singing, there was a line in a Mötley Crüe song, “Forward all my mail to me in hell.”
You just get in agreements with the enemy on things where you allow him to then be a partner in your life and start to mess you up. Like things that I got into, like the tarot cards, like the witchcraft book, like the ouija board. I’ve had so many things that people think, “Oh, the ouija board, oh, that’s just a game.” It’s not a game. It isn’t a game.
Those are, if you could picture doors that are open, that I opened, the devil didn’t open that, God didn’t open it. I did. I opened that door. I wouldn’t had done it if I knew what was going to happen, I would’ve never opened that door.
Justin Daubenmire: True that man. True that.
Bill West: There are just many, many things that maybe I opened the door. Maybe my grandmother opened the door, dripping the oil in the water to practice divination about something. I don’t know. You know what I mean?
Justin Daubenmire: Yes, now, my grandma read my palm. I got demons from that.
Bill West: Aren’t there little things that go on in our lives that we’re just like, “Ah, ha yes. My grandmother used to do that,” or “I remember this time where we went and we stood in the mirror and we said bloody Mary three times and ha-ha-ha-ha.”
It’s not ha-ha-ha-ha. When you can’t figure out why you have some things happening in your life and you don’t know why, there’s a reason. It’s like you said, a curse will not alight for no reason. There is some access point, some open door and there are times when you need to get help.
There is no fear and there is no shame. Come to Jesus because we’re talking about the supernatural. Yes, we are talking about paranormal activity and Hollywood has hyped this up to the point where people are afraid to look at it or deal with it. The fact of the matter is that the blood of Jesus is always, always, always sufficient. The power of God-
Justin Daubenmire: Supreme.
Bill West: -is Supreme in any situation to reverse every situation and every fact on this world and this universe, is always subject to the Final Word. That’s the Word of God. We don’t have to be afraid at all. We can come to the Lord, if– this always has to be about the Lord.
Justin Daubenmire: Bill, why don’t you, if you wouldn’t mind, say a prayer for the listeners and then we’ll call it a wrap?
Bill West: All right. Lord we just thank You for today. I thank you for Your love for us. That is absolutely the pinnacle of everything that we do and everything that we say. Your character, even though the enemy would like to accuse You, he accuses us and Lord, he accuses You, but we know that Your character is not such that You like to watch people suffer, but the scripture tells us that God gave His only begotten Son so that through Him, we might not perish, but we have everlasting life.
I thank You for that. That You’re not a liar, that You are not a torturer, You have nothing but good intentions for us, top to bottom, back to front, hands down as Justin likes to say, You have nothing but love for us and nothing but good intentions for us.
I thank You for the people that might be listening. Thank You that You will bring them into a place where they can have the courage to seek help if they need it in any way. Whether it be mental help, physical help, what’s the difference, spiritual help. What’s the difference? It’s all part of who we are.
I pray and I ask Lord that You would draw people to Yourself, set them free in any method by the blood of Jesus, Lord, we thank You for that. I thank You that You’re going to do it in Jesus Holy Name. Amen.
[music]
Justin Daubenmire: And you never know, you may be demon-possessed and this is the first time you’re coming to the realization of it. If that’s you, I’d like to invite you right now to go to my website, justind.com and book a session with me and let’s get rid of your unwanted guests and start moving you toward freedom and a quiet mind. Thanks for listening. Until next time, God bless.